Two Veterans Talk Testicular Cancer (Unfiltered)

This wasn’t planned.
We just kept the mic rolling.

After wrapping our conversation with Kevin Sloan, Casey jumped in and what followed turned into one of the most real conversations we’ve had yet.

No script. No structure. Just two veterans who’ve both faced testicular cancer talking about what life actually looks like after.

In this Side Mission episode, we get into:

•  Life after losing one—or both—testicles 
•  Low testosterone (Low T) and hormone replacement therapy 
•  What recovery really feels like (the stuff no one tells you) 
•  Chemo, fatigue, and long-term side effects 
•  The fear of cancer coming back—and how it sticks with you 
•  Navigating the VA and advocating for your own care 
•  Why more men need to start talking about this 

This is the conversation that usually happens off camera—but it’s the one more people need to hear.

If you’ve been through cancer, know someone who has, or just want the real side of survivorship… this one hits different.

 Full episodes: Veteran Cancer Talk
 Learn more: www.veterancancernetwork.org

 If something feels off get checked. Early detection saves lives.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

All right, Kevin. I'm gonna go ahead and stop recording Casey. Oh, come say hi to come say hi to Kevin really quick. He's he's not turning it up. Yeah. Yeah. Uh I'll take over your stuff. Oh, actually, he's gonna act he's actually gonna talk. Holy crap, this never happens. There you go.

SPEAKER_01 0:13

I must be a special case.

SPEAKER_04 0:18

Hey, Kevin, how's it going?

SPEAKER_02 0:19

How's it going? Good. How's it going?

SPEAKER_04 0:21

Uh it's it's going, man. It's always a struggle here and there, depending on what you're looking at, right? Um we're just gonna keep it rolling. We're just gonna back and forth. I probably won't use any of this. I just you know wanted to connect uh with you. I wasn't feeling good earlier. We uh that we're cycling, you know, 108 miles in two days. That did a number on me, man.

SPEAKER_01 0:42

I can only imagine it's kind of like you're like, you know what? I'm trying to be like Lance Armstrong and go out there and go and do those miles and you know push through in the grueling days, so I can understand what you're going through. And I got my diagnosis, I said, you know, I got in Lance Armstrong when I got that's when I got the Lance Armstrong deal.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Yeah, yeah, man. Uh un until his doping stuff, that is, right? Oh man, yeah. Hey, the dude, he's famous, he was famous, and he'll always be famous. Uh yeah, I don't know if you know uh much about our ride, uh, besides we're going from Florida to DC, right, on bicycles. But Ashton didn't even know how to use the brake pedals until last year when we bought our bikes. So we we might just passed our 400 uh miles for five months. We we've been slowly getting up to 500 total or sorry, 400 total miles. So doing a 108 mile back to back or you know, 60 and like 48 back to back, it is hard. It is hard.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

I can imagine.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

And it's um I for me at least it's kind of hard. I don't know about you, and this is a question I wanted to talk man to man on kind of thing, because you know, we both lost something precious to us, right? And you've lost two. Uh so uh my question was like I I am having low T, you know, testosterone because of mine, but I'm testing in the normal range, just super low in the normal range. Are you because you've, you know, your let's go with your first round, right?

SPEAKER_01 2:12

You your first did you experience any of those problems, or was the other one really working hard for you until you No, um I didn't really experience like anything with the testosterone kind of like loss until like my second my second uh diagnosis and then after that they wanted to put me on the you know uh gel therapy with the androgel and the low T replacement. Um with my first one, I didn't really, you know, get my I got my markers checked anytime my testosterone was somewhat, you know, out of normal range, or you can feel some drop off because it was just the losing the one test. But now that I lost the second one, now I can definitely see where the little T can be involved and you know, you take different things like you know, beetroot, or you want to take testosterone boosters, or you know, for the VA to give you the angel gel, and I gotta put it on, you know, daily for the replacement, the hormone therapy replacement. So that is something that I have to deal with on a day-to-day basis. But you know, it's not bad. Uh I'd rather do that instead we get an injection every day. I'm like, uh, yeah, or every couple months.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Yeah, I was gonna ask you about that because uh if you didn't say gel already, I was gonna be like, hey, do you do the you know, you pull your your stomach, you stab it basically. How how is that? But it seems like the gel is the way to go for the most part, from what I understand. And yeah, uh, I'm I'm not too familiar with it. Do you just like apply it to your stomach? Do you like it?

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Yeah, um, no, I put it on my shoulders. I do one here, one here, and one here, and it's three pumps uh daily for me. So that's what they give you for the um regiment to do. And it's not bad at all.

SPEAKER_04 3:49

Yeah, it doesn't seem too bad. Do you do you actually feel like this is for my personal information here? Oh, yeah. Do you uplift? You know, like you feel a little bit more energized, or is it just like just eh, kind of kind of somewhat fixes?

SPEAKER_01 4:03

I think it's just somewhat fixes because like you put it on and it's cold, but then it dries really quick, but then that's it. And then you just go through your day-to-day routine, you just gotta make sure it dries because you don't want to put it on your shirt and it gets you know on your shirt because it's a it's a dry dry gel. It's like a clear gel that you rub on, and you can smell the alcohol in it because it's alcohol-based, and it just dries and absorbs your skin. Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 4:27

Yeah, that's something like uh I I've been going with the VA. Like I said, I'm I'm kind of on the lower end, but I'm like 50 points above, you know. Oh, don't feel bad.

SPEAKER_01 4:35

I just when I did my last blood work, they were like, Yeah, your your testosterone is like 100. And they're like, Yeah, do you want to kind of go on the injections? And I tell them, I'm like, no, not yet. Let me get back on the on my gel regiment, and that's why I had to get my gel. And they give you like about a time, they give me three bottles at a time, as opposed to lasting up to like four to five months, because you're doing it daily, you're gonna burn through the gel quick, and then you just get your re-ups. Like right now, I gotta re-up my uh uh meds for that.

SPEAKER_04 5:05

So hey, that that's a good amount of supplies, you know, a handful of months. That that's not bad at all, to be honest. Uh uh compared to other stuff. But I I am really surprised um after your conversation with Ashton, um, that they didn't even really offer you uh those uh implants, I guess, you know, too.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

Well the doctor did mention, well, the VA doctor mentioned it, but he was like, it probably won't it probably will burst, and I'm like, oh okay. He's like, dude, I can't even imagine.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

Think about that. You know, you're you're running or something, then all of a sudden another burst.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

I funny enough, I watch wrestling and I seen a wrestler and they mentioned that they had a breast implant and their implant pop during the move, and I'm like, oh, that is not really good. They built it pop, and I'm like, oh, I don't want that to happen.

SPEAKER_04 5:56

That's crazy. Yeah, my my my son and I just started watching wrestling again. You know, I watched it back in the day, now he's into it, and now he's doing the freaking people's elbow and stuff on me. You know, it's it's a whole ordeal, right? Um, I'm always always got sores now, but uh but yeah, that that that's something, man. That's something that I would have been scared of. Um, but during the time, so I went in and all that, they took one out. They're like, hey, do you want us to put one, you know, something back in? I was like, um, I don't know what what's the side effects, what's that? They're like, eh, sometimes it doesn't mesh well with the other one, so you're getting pounding on one side. I was like, I don't want to do none of that. I already felt, you know, like after they took it out, I already felt like someone ran up and freaking punted me down there, you know, it was not feeling good. So um I didn't want none of that. So I did you want it not?

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Like the jock strap support, because like when like we're both I had the jock strap support and it felt so awkward. I'm like, this feels so weird because you feel the band and you're feeling it holding your in place, and it's like this is just yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

Dude, so it's funny enough, I I um my my cancer, or you know, our cancer basically, but um, yeah, I got that that support, but then as soon as my my left one is what was taken out, my right one started overproducing, so it swelled up a little, so I had to use that support. And I was freaking out, I was like, oh my god, something's wrong again. You know, it went straight into that like ski anxiety and you know, all that stuff. Like, holy crap. But no, it's just most people don't understand that you have two testicles and they're both lazy, really. Work 50% of the time. So if you lose one, the other one has to, you like it will literally compensate for it, but it sometimes like seasonal, it kind of kind of makes it a little bit bigger to produce, depending on stuff. So um sometimes I I feel uh, you know, like in the shower, I do my you know, like weekly, monthly check, and I'm like my god, it's got bigger, I think. You know, it's like, oh my gosh. And I start freaking out a little bit, but it's a very natural thing. But um, yeah, I mean, it it's it's it's very nice to to speak to someone that's been through this as well, and uh at least uh able to talk about because most men, like Ashton mentioned, and I'm I'm sure you you went into it, most military men, hardened men, don't want to talk about something as private as you know their private parts, especially not on this to anyone. So uh there's a lot of people out there struggling alone, and you know, we you know that's what we're trying to do here, is we're just trying to get people to open up, talk about it, normalize it, and so more people are spreading the message, hey, just go get checked, right? And I'm sure you've been doing that ever since you got hit twice with this.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

So uh back to your first time. So i if if you could go back in time before your your first uh cancer uh treatment ever start, would is there anything you would have told your past self uh to like look for, you know, go get get checked out? Anything in particular?

SPEAKER_01 8:57

Yeah, I would have probably said, you know, uh self-checks and and make sure when I were getting uh physical and said, hey, maybe I should have said doctor, you know, check all my markers, make sure that I may not have you know a cancer marker that populates or anything like that. That would be something in my past self I would have told. And like you said, definitely follow up on the checkups, like you said, make sure everything feels good. You don't feel you know, discomfort or you know, anything that's gonna throw you off. That's something I would have loved to add. But you know, like I said, you may modest medicine has changed over the last decades and stuff like that. It makes your mindset kind of stinks now. You didn't have the WebMD and things like that, you know. You know how to go on what you were taught and or what the doctor were telling you, you just follow what they are, you know, suggesting. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:47

Yeah, man. I I dude, I I love um hearing about people's stories, especially like where medicine was, and then now that it's slowly shifting to, you know, more like streamline, more, you know, like AI. It's but different kind of protocols are are starting to creep up and uh it's phenomenal. Like we're we're seeing everything from like someone saying there's a cure for cancer or for prostate cancer overseas, someone's doing the uh like an uh what is it, uh ultrasound or sound waves or breaking up cancer cells. And you know, all this technology is very good. The problem uh I think in my life, I like the VA. I I really do. I I I think there's VA does really good stuff for what they they do. I think some stuff needs to be updated, but I cannot wait until the VA gets in there and starts utilizing some of this new emerging tech technology someday, or at least make it a little bit more streamlined to get community care and get approval to do some of those kind of treatments. Uh, what is your take on that? If if you have a take.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

Oh yeah. And funny enough, I actually work for community care. So I see it and I interact and I can hear it and I understand what people go through. And yeah, I'm a love for the way the VA to kind of push more of those, you know, resources and those efforts because we are our training, we're like a training hospital. We do train other people to, you know, in their own fields and say, look, we're gonna be a teaching hospital. We want you to come and learn, learn the veterans, learn how to sense of the pride and granary that we, you know, we earned and you know, give back to that community. But, you know, I would love for them to kind of venture on the different things like you know, from using THC, C B D, that's someone to uh taboos or something that we can't talk about, but I'm like if it helps people find a way to make it, you know, worth our while to utilize. Like for me, I got so what because I suffer from seizures in my own personal story, you know. Um I am taking seizure meds, but I also thought of maybe taking um CBD, you know, oil or you know, C BD gummies to maybe, you know, help with, you know, like my back pain or like with my you know seizures and maybe try to help correlate that. And that is something that I talked about with my neurologist, and she was like, if you feel that's an alternative to help, why not?

SPEAKER_04 12:06

You know, I I I love that we're in we're both in Florida. We're up near Jacksonville, you're in Tampa, I'm sure, right? Yeah, since you get treatment. I'm I'm actually Lakeland, but I literally like problems. Uh Florida at least lets you get your medical card if you want it. If you can do it. And I've utilized it here. Um, you know, uh like we moved here maybe like a year after um my treatment ended. Like we sold our house in Illinois, moved down here, and I was like, man, I like I still since my testicular cancer was stage 3A, it moved to my left uh kidney area, you know, lip nodes swelled, uh stage one kidney failure. So I'm like, I I'm still getting like scar tissue pain or you know, residuals from that. So I was like, this would really help me. I went to the VA, they're like, maybe you should look into it. We're not stopping you. So I went private and you know, got got a card for a little bit. You know, I don't do it anymore or anything. I never could smoke anything, but I I'd like to take the mitts, the gummy, just a little bit. And it definitely helped out uh some of that anxiety and that fanning pains.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

I went through one, it was a and it's pointing out he was an Air Force doctor, and he said, Why don't you try the um oil? You can put the oil droplets underneath your tongue. And he was making his own batches. He was even saying, Look, I'm gonna, yeah, he's like, if I have certain things, I'll make up my batch and you know, take the droplets and go from there. And he said it works great. And he says he recommends it to people if you got certain like joint pain or you know, aches of pain, why not? You can you can actually um change the the dosage and how it you know adjust it to what your needs are, you know. And that's something that I was like, you know what, I would love to have because like I have back pain and you know my arthritis in my ankles, and I said, you know, while don't take, you know, uh, you know, a gummy or um a droplet, but the gummies, it's kind of like you have to be mindful of the milligrams you take because it can be too strong, it can put it put you down for a little bit. So yeah, yeah, for sure and learn the different strands and things like that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:06

Yeah, for sure. Um I I I didn't like taking too much of it. Uh I would cut off like a half here and there, and then I would only take it at night to go to bed. Um, that kind of stuff because you know some of them they they do kick a little harder than others sometimes. But uh make you want to eat everything. Just eat everything. I would have to be basically about to pass out just to just so I would raid the fridge, right? But uh I do think some of those kind of things, at least a C B D, uh, should be implemented as like maybe maybe a rub or something. Maybe the VA can you know do something like that because it would help. It would help at least aches and pains. And a lot of people a lot of us veterans have arthritis and all that stuff. I'm yeah, positive it can help out. Uh, but yeah, I cannot wait until the VA starts doing some of these emerging technologies to be able to at least alleviate some extra pain without giving us just shoot tons of uh pills every day.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Yes, um, exactly, because the pills have so many side effects, and it's like you know, one met one medicine interact with the other, it'll throw off. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

Yeah, I so so you had to do two rounds, right? Just to make sure you did two rounds. How much medication did they give you? Because me, I went three rounds, so not much more than you, and they I had a gallon bag full of nothing but painkillers, nausea pills, some other stuff for constipation, just a whole uh like freezer bag full of it.

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Yeah, they get they gave me uh a concoction and it was like things like three bags. One was like a yellow bag, and then another one was clear for the uh anti-nausea, and then another one was like saline to keep you hydrated, and then and then actually gave me lunch while I was going through the you know treatment. So it was kind of you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:47

Dude, I got a story for you if you got time, right? Uh the the we found a non-profit. Uh we were in uh rush university. I was getting my uh treatment through community care. So uh, you know, I really love the program when it when it needs to be, right? But uh we had a nonprofit that catered for for veterans, so they brought me a free, like uh, I think it was like chicken finger meals, whatever, dip and sauce. Tastes like uh Zach Zaxby's Zaxby's Zaxby's and you know, the dip and sauce. I had it oh man, first day of chemo, loved it. I ordered it the next day, hated it, cannot eat it again because of that taste. It's the second day of chemo just really wrecked my body when it came to that food.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

So I will never like a body shock.

SPEAKER_04 16:30

It was it was like the first day, I didn't feel any kind of like if I felt normal for like the first round of chemo, and then when the second round hit, my hair started falling out, freaking can't eat, you know, everything like that. I uh ended up scratching my face, like popping a pimple, went into sepsis, was in ICU for a week during the between the second first and second round of chemo. Dude, I dropped like 35 pounds. That was like 192 or something. I dropped down to like 163. Like, I did you have any of that kind of side effects for the treatment?

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Yeah, so I had like the fatigue, and then um I didn't really have the weight, though I had a little bit of the weight loss, but it wasn't like I'm heavy, but just the fatigue was like my main thing.

SPEAKER_02 17:09

Like I wanted to sleep, or you know, I kind of just like in the mood or I just wanted to stay in bed and you know, I'm on my couch and didn't want to do anything, you know. Yeah, dude, it was the same way.

SPEAKER_04 17:21

Like we had two stories in our old house. Dude, I slept on the couch, I would not get upstairs. I dude, I during at least dragged me along to the bed. Yeah, pretty pretty much. I'm like crawling up the stairs when I have to go to shower and stuff like that. I was not having it. And then like I said, I went into sepsis and that freaking threw everything out of the whack for the next two rounds. Um, but dude, I passed it. You know, I'm good. I'm almost to my fifth year, but I am I I know Ashton said something about it earlier. I am a little scared because the uh the remission testing, I'm sure you do. You go in, you get your blood draw, you get the what is it, LDH or LHD or something like that. Something like that, yeah. Yeah, uh a couple of those tests. But uh, I talked to my oncologist the last time. It was like four months ago when I did my last blood test. And I was like, hey, uh well, I'd be able to utilize this later on, you know, like after, because I am nervous that it will come back because we have a higher chance that it will come back, right?

SPEAKER_01 18:16

Yes, and I did not know that when I until I got told, I was like, oh wow, I wasn't expecting that when the late the oncologist came up, or the wildest thing, yeah, you have you have it again.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

And I'm like, What?

SPEAKER_04 18:27

Yeah, I was it just yeah, dude. Yeah, I I am I'm super nervous. You've already been through it and then had it again. So we're at an increased chance because we had chemo, like you uh like you didn't have to have it at first because you caught it early enough. And that that's that's one of the things uh you know everyone should should understand. If you catch a testicular cancer early enough, usually they just rip it out, you know, and then usually you don't even have to do anything.

SPEAKER_01 18:52

That was a blessing. Yeah, when they said they did uh biopsy, it was like it was contained, and then this time around it was contained, but you were you were technically stage one, and I'm like, I didn't even know I was in stage one. I'm like, really? Yeah. Dude, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 19:05

I and and then the the next time you just had a filling basically, you're just like, oh, hey, let's go get some blood work done.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

And no, it was my normal and that was my normal checkups because you know the BA, they make sure you get your checkups and all that. And because since I already had it one time, they said, let's go ahead and get you through urology. So I was doing my normal urology appointment, and they're like, Yeah, guess what? You have cancer again, and I'm like, What? And they said, Oh, this time we're not going to work with you, we're gonna send you to hematology and oncology and let them do your care moving forward. And that's what I've been going through for the last few years now, hematology and oncology, because they said mostly urology only deals with like urological, you know, conditions, which you know, like penile disorder or you know, UD, or if you have any kind of an infection down there, that's what they deal with. So I was like, damn, you kind of just handed me off. I overtook hematology oncology and call it a day. I'm like, that's it. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:02

Yeah, man, that that's nuts. So uh I don't know if I I I didn't hear it, um, but how long was it between your first diagnosis to your second diagnosis? Like you you finished your, you know, they took it out, you're on surveillance. How long did it take for it to uh I guess spread and grow?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

Yeah, um the initial was 2016 and then my second one was 2023. So it was kind of like seven, it was just yeah, it was like a it just came out of nowhere when I got the diagnosis. That's why I was like, this is a shock, because like you said, now that I've done my research and saw that the rates can get higher of you getting it again after your first you know occurrence, it's like wow, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:41

Wow, that that's that's crazy, dude. I cannot imagine because I I like I said I'm approaching that five year, and that's usually when the VA is kind of like doo-doo, kick you off. You know, you're you're free to the world. The next one's gonna be a completely new one if you get it. Uh I am worried about that safety net disappearing, and it seems like you are able to at least get them to keep testing you afterwards. Is there like a trick to this or no?

SPEAKER_01 21:04

They just they just felt that because I already had it once, they just said, What urology at the time, let's just you know keep doing your markers, make sure you're good. And you can ask, you ask your primary care doctor. I would say, look, if you feel that the primary care doctor is not doing what you want, request for another doctor. Tell them, like, look, I want that opinion, you want that comfort, you want that at ease kind of feeling to get tested for those different markers. And they'll do them, they'll they'll put the order in. They unless you ask for another doctor, say, look, I want this order to be put in for this because I feel that having this cancer, I feel that, you know, if it does reoccur, you want to be prepared and be like, all right, I got a prolonged attack, let's go ahead and you know, get to it.

SPEAKER_04 21:47

Yeah, yeah. I definitely want to be more uh proactive than reactive when it comes to this.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:53

Especially since, you know, you went through it, dude. I I am nervous. I am especially since I just talked, I just talked. To my uh oncologist, right? I went in, they did the blood work. Uh it was my uh half a year. Um, and then I I I'm about to get one in May. But uh they were they were like, Hey, once you do your next CT scan in November, we're not making any further appointments unless something happens. So the they'll understand that kind of stuff in Gainesville. I go to Gainesville and they told me that.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

I was like, oh I've been to Gainesville, I've seen it very, very unique hospital, very unique hospital. Attached to that other college, right? That medical college too.

SPEAKER_04 22:31

So at least if something happens, it'll bring me over there, right?

SPEAKER_03 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:34

But yeah, man, that's safe that safety network. Yeah. But okay, so since you're further along in your journey than I am, what would be your advice after I hit my November five-year mark?

SPEAKER_01 22:48

I would say definitely make sure you stay on top of the check and check marks, make sure you get the blood work. You know, tell your doctors, hey, look, I just want to have that self-at-ease of checking the cancer markers, making sure that, you know, you're still in remission. You don't want anything to come up and caught you off guard. So that's what I would definitely say. Just follow up surveillance and the blood work. It like I said, the blood work will tell you a lot, even the CT scans, but tell them the blood work, tell them to check all the markers if you feel in that sense. Because that's for me, like like now, they still check my testosterone, my HGH, whatever you know, markers they need to hit.

SPEAKER_04 23:26

So okay, sweet. And my last one, I swear to goodness. So I'm not sure. You're good, I'm good, no worries, no worries. Since you do work uh within the community care, right? Um, how hard is it to request community care after you're in the VA system itself? Like if you're already beginning treatment.

SPEAKER_01 23:45

It's not that hard. You just gotta ask to get opted into the community care program, but it also depends on the different service because like the service could say, look, we want to have no appointments within the next 30 days, let's go ahead and automatically get you in the community care. Or you could say, hey, ask your primary care doctor saying, Look, hey, I want to try to get into community care. You can go on the VA website, you can actually do your research and find a provider that may, you know, work with veterans and take what we utilize as optimum. Optim is the insurance that the VA uses, and you can push it out and say, hey, look, do you guys take veteran patients and see? Or you can find someone within your air local area and say, look, I ain't trying to drive that far to go get treated. If I feel that just urologists here take VA patients, you know, get them to get on board and sign up for the um community care uh VA program and become a provider that you know veterans can go get seen and go to that provider for that service.

SPEAKER_04 24:39

Okay. Excellent. Uh great advice, man. Uh, great info too. Uh definitely gonna use you for any any anything that comes up when you're gonna be able to do that. You're very welcome. Any anytime, anytime. Yeah, send them over to the U.S. Be like, hey, can can you give them advice on this? Um, because uh yeah, man, I I I feel like I I have this doctor that's kind of a floating doctor for my primary care. He's like a temp for like the last six months, they're just not hiring.

SPEAKER_01 25:06

And don't be surprised that they'll leave and go to their own practice, and you'll get a new yeah. I I know what you're going through because like I had mine because I just moved when I moved counties because I moved in my own home. I had to get another I got the Lakeland uh clinic, local clinic, and I saw the doctor, and they already switched them off, and I already got another doctor. And I'm like, really? Yeah, I'm getting really the photo providers is is scary.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

It is because you know, you gotta give them your whole medical history, and then all of a sudden, like a handful of months later, you gotta do it again, you know, to a new one, you know, that takes their spot or whatnot.

SPEAKER_01 25:41

So they gotta read your whole pocket of information and and booklet, and it feels like they're reading novels because you got so many pages of your documents, your your background, what have you gone through your medical history? You know, it's definitely a lot.

SPEAKER_05 25:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:59

Didn't mean to be creepy coming in there. I do have a question on that though. So when it comes to uh what what some of the things that we're advocating for is utilizing AI and medical record, specifically um, so when I was talking about like environment and exposure history and so forth. Do you think that the VA because I know that they're starting to utilize AI, screening the medical record for diagnoses, but being able to put in your service history as well, what your job was, where you were deployed at, you know, those kind of things. I'm sitting there thinking that would be like a just a really easy way for us to be able to help with diagnoses, you know, because you got what, 20 minutes with a doctor, you know, that's not enough time for them to actually do your whole medical record. But what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 26:37

No, I would think implementation of AI and the different kind of resources out there would be a great tool because it would cut a lot of the the fat that we oversaturate with because the VA itself is like, look, you got my files, you got, I got like documents and documents, and it's like one thing that I learned is through the National Archives you can request called a C file. Your C file will give you your whole entire medical history. Say if you wanted to put in for like a V a service connection claim, and you know, you gotta turn all this stuff in, or you could skim through it and find keywords what you can relate to and say, hey, look, when you do your CNP exam, hey, this is what I did in the service, this is what I equate to, and this is what I feel that is, you know, giving me this diagnosis of what I'm dealing with. So I'm I think AI would be a perfect, perfect utilization, and it'll cut a lot of this cluster work cluster that we deal with, you know, because we have release of information and you gotta go through so many protocols with them, and it's a headache, and you know, like for my documents, like I had try to submit in for an accommodation for my my job. I had to go through release of information. But when I initially reached out to my my neurologist, I said, Hey, can you try to do this? And like they were like, No, you can't go through this, you gotta go through release. I'm like, why do I gotta go through so many damn hoops to get to what I want or just what my request is? It's it's a headache. It's a headache. It's like, why I gotta jump through hoops? Well, I just want a simple request. I'm like, hey, read the document. If you feel this is good, fill it out, sign it, send it back to me so I can send it to the appropriate department, you know.

SPEAKER_00 28:09

Well, and I also think part of the problem is though, is that between the CMP exam and then the actual health side, so you got the benefits side and then you have the health side. They don't talk to one another. Like those systems.

SPEAKER_01 28:18

They don't. I and funny enough, before I got back to the VHA side, I worked in the VBA side, it it is a whole it's a headache. It is a clusterfuck. I'm not gonna be sugarcoated. It's because third new regional offices, they don't get your documents, and then if they feel that they they won't do it, they'll just rotate it out and go to another R regional office. And I've seen it because when I worked there, it's like, man, I got another VA and another RO and another, you know, state getting the documentation. It's like they didn't do anything, but then they send it to us, and then we have to, you know, skim through it, try to get the veteran scheduled, upload whatever documents that need to go um up for processing, and then try to find them the CNP examination provider, where they're located at. It's a it's a it's a cluster. And then they have an expectation to for you to do so many, you know, uh schedulings per day or so many quotas you gotta hit, and that's overwhelming enough as it is. And before this administration got in office, you know, people were able to work remotely and work from home. And I'm like, now you're trying to go back into the office. This much more of a stressful time because you gotta go through traffic, depending on where you live, sitting there for those eight hours a day, and then you getting out of it, then you gotta drive all the way home and you do it again the next day. And it's like they don't understand the impact of that on the person, like the employee. It's like if you want employees to work better, take their feedback. Like you can we can do anonymous surveys or do surveys that get supposedly read. And I'm like, you're not taking the feedback because say we got people that's been in this job and they were trying to find ways to improve the service, they don't do that. And it's like, listen to us. We're the ones that are actually going through it, getting the interaction with the veteran and the feedback from the provider. Listen to us. Like, that's all we want is a chance to be heard and listened to and take what we suggest because we will try to improve the process at the end of the day. You know, it's something that I I don't understand. It's like you want us to be transparent and give you all the information, but you don't want to utilize it, but you feel that, hey, the doctor said this, follow what the doctor says. It's like, come on, listen to the people that are boots on the ground, they're getting the interaction, they're getting the feedback, take what they suggest.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Yeah, no, I I completely agree on that one. Um, you know, that's just I mean, that's a leadership issue, you know, for them not to, you know, be able to sit there and and and take, you know, real life work, you know, and actually implement it. I mean, you see it in the military.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

So something above pay grade.

SPEAKER_00 30:54

Yeah, well, absolutely. Um, but you know, one of the things that you know I I find really interesting is so like if somebody is joining the military, you know, you go to maps, their software that they utilize, it looks at everything. You know, so there is no more lying saying, oh, that never actually happened. I mean, that is that is all right there, you know, then in the They make you sign waivers.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

That's what they want you to do with the waivers. And I'm like, yeah, what's it? There's no lying on it.

SPEAKER_00 31:16

You have you want to go see a mental health, you know, mental health counselor whenever you're in fourth grade. Hey, guess what? That's gonna come up now. But when it comes to our you know, VA healthcare system, I can't remember what system that is. Um, it does not translate well to, you know, civilian health care. So it's really one-sided. They can take in the information, but they can't take it out.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

And then they're and then they're talking about maybe upgrading to another system. And this is something they've been talking about for like the last like three to five years. And I'm just like, what are we doing? Like, why it takes so long for us? And they feel that it's no, it could be HIPAA related, it could be, you know, PI because they don't want you know information to be leaked, and it's just like, we already got information out there. Yeah, what do you want us to do? You know, it's like they want to safeguard everything, but it's like the system you use may not work, and then you want to train everybody on it, and the system will have its bugs, it may not be compatible, it may not be you know user-friendly, and you know, some people are like, I can't use this, it's not gonna work. Use it what worked before, which is an old, you know, older system, and it's just a whole nother, yeah. That it's like I said, it's it's a higher than us kind of you know situation that we have to deal with.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Yeah, a lot of a lot of major health institutions are using Epic. Epic is a is a gold standard when it comes to the you know the healthcare software that's out there.

SPEAKER_01 32:32

In funny of my mother used Epic. And uh when I went out for my um own personal to get on, like for example, Ozinfic, if you want to get on like a drug for weight loss, you know, the VA wasn't given it, then you have to go through the the mood program and go through nutrition and all these hoops. And it's just like, whatever you tell your doctor you feel that I might be a good candidate for trying this, they won't let you even try it. You gotta go through all the different stuff. But now in my case, like they gave me all the meds, they said all this is that now they said, okay, now we're gonna finally let you try Osimpic and you know, and if it's working, if it worked, go ahead and utilize it. But then, and now that we found out that with Osimpic, you know, it kind of has those side effects that people don't understand. And it's like, well, you know, like your gastro, your your organs can be affected by it. And it's just, yeah, it's kind of like, well, we didn't know, but for me, I like I said, I went to use Epic to go with the um the doctor who got me on Ozympic, and he said, Let's get you on it. And then I had to pay out of pocket, but then now that I got it through the VA, after I said, Look, I tried it, it worked, it brought my numbers down. Then I said, Okay, now we're gonna let you have it through the VA pharmacy. It's just that's another hoop you gotta jump through, unfortunately. It sucks. It's just some of that you wish that was an easier option.

SPEAKER_04 33:50

Yeah, a little bit more streamlined because I I gotta like I'm experiencing that right now. I have from from high dose steroids from the chemo, right? Um, I did BEP and the, you know, one of those is I had to do high dose steroids. I have uh avascular necrosis in both of my uh femur ball joints. So inside bone problem, right? Uh to get me looked at, according to my primary care, to see a specialist, I would have to go through 15 physical therapies where it messes with the muscle around it. That's what I said. I was like, how how if it's a bone problem that I've already seen a specialist before any out, you know, he sent me to community care, get x-rays, talk to a civilian, they were like, hey, it's so small now, it's fine. Come back when it gets more pressure. It's built up more pressure, and now the VA is like, hey, instead of seeing a specialist, you gotta go go to physical therapy for your muscles to strengthen your muscles. I was like, oh, I'll do it, but dude, this is this is at least minimum.

SPEAKER_01 34:46

Yeah, yeah, you don't want to go through. Yeah, I got you. Yeah. Like for us, like in certain departments, like they only authorize so much treatment. And it's just like, if the treatment is working for me, why don't you keep utilizing it? They spilled that it's spending more money. As you can see, this is where the whole money plays a factor in things.

SPEAKER_00 35:06

I mean, I'll I'll say they're say this and so I'm blue in the face. I mean, there definitely needs to be a little bit more of a reform when it comes to VA. And I'm on more of the drastic side, you know, turn it into a, you know, turning it into an insurance, you know, have the VA be a teaching hospital. So any doctor going through, they could sit there and learn about military culture and some of the nuances that we have. Ultimately, I mean, imagine those that are having to use community care because there's no VA near them, you know, those rural rural areas, just being able to utilize it as an insurance. And depending on what your rating is, depends on if you have to buy into it or if it's going to be offered for free for you. That's how I would do it.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 35:39

I mean, common sense, you know, but you know, there's gonna be there's gonna be pushback on that. But I but I do think that would be that would solve a lot of these.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

I have my own, I have my own outside insurance and I still use I use I I got both. I said I might as well use both if I need to. I use VA regular stuff, and if I have stuff specialized, or if I can't, you know, I don't have time, I'll use my private and you know yeah.

SPEAKER_04 36:01

Well, the the VA should be used as a safety net, uh, in my opinion. Like if you can't afford private insurance or something like that, or you fall into hard times, the VA's are perfect for it. Yeah, it's so expensive. But the VA is a great safety net, and we found that I think it's like 40 something percent of all veterans, that's the only uh like the only 40-something percent use the VA itself. So if if we just I don't know, make maybe fix it by signing people up at steps and taps, you know, exiting, just be like, hey, you have it, you're in the system, you just gotta make an appointment. So everyone that falls on a hard time and you like everything hits right bottom, like my cancer at stage three. I need to go see someone then in there, they would be able to have that option instead of just fight to get a appointment to get scheduled, you know, something like that. So I I don't know. I I think it should be a little bit more streamlined uh the process, but maybe that's just me.

SPEAKER_01 36:53

I agree. I I think so. Yeah, like when they do taps, like I said, when I got out, I actually had a VA rep was there, and we did the whole, you know, the CMP process or kind of ask you questions, and then that's where they got it off over to them, and then I did my exam, and then they say, Hey, you rated this, and you know, I've had that rating for 20 years, and I'm like, Okay, you know. So I totally understand. Like I said, the streamlined process would be something. Like I said, they need they need to really listen to the organizations, the frontline workers, the get the feedback. Because at the end of the day, the veteran is what we are here for, and they need their health care. It's what we signed up for. It's in the oath. We take oh, follow it, and you know, don't think of it because oh, it's a money thing. No, it's about the veteran at the end of the day. That's who we're caring for.

SPEAKER_00 37:44

And I feel like on to that because, you know, it's well if you look at it, I mean, if you look at it though, I mean, you have what is it, 30 per what percentage? Is it 30 percent that they get health care per free or sixty percent?

SPEAKER_04 37:56

Uh I'm not quite sure. You have to be over the threshold of 30 or 40.

SPEAKER_00 37:59

Yeah, whatever that threshold is, and you get free, you know, free everything to include prescription and all that. But like for those that only have like, you know, a 10%, you know, for their tinnitus and in their you know, they're able to do that.

SPEAKER_01 38:09

10% disability and they gotta meet the certain the eligibility call. Oh, yeah, I've doubled that when I worked in our travel department and yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:17

But they but they pay into it, you know, those like it's not free free healthcare for them, you know.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

They have to pay for it, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:23

They have to pay for it. So I'm like, okay, well, instead of you know, like basically having that option, like I'd rather pay a little bit more and be able to be cho, you know, choose who I get to go see, you know, versus being you know subjected to a you know healthcare center that is 45 minutes an hour away from my house, or go to a C bock that's still 25, 30 minutes away.

SPEAKER_01 38:41

And there's nowhere to park, and then there's you know traffic and the foot traffic is insane, yes, or the provider only works a certain amount of time. Like I said, there's so many underlying underlying issues from that, and it's like, what are we doing? You know, yeah. Well, no, I get you.

SPEAKER_04 38:58

Yeah, uh thing well, one last thing, one last thing. I swear one last thing. It's okay, it's okay. No worries. This is just your opinion on this one. Would you be ever interested in doing a cancer survivor veteran cruise?

SPEAKER_01 39:13

Yeah, yeah, to be honest, yes. Yeah, it'd be definitely an option. Yeah, so it's funny enough, yeah. If you guys don't follow in TikTok, there's this thing, it's through it's through a veterans um group, and they send you out to the DR for like a week, and they parent, and it's kind of like you got I think you got paid for the trip, but they do everything. They give you a hotel stay, they have you sit and do different types of therapy if you need therapy from what it's water aquatics, um, you know, aerobics, mental health. And they it's it's really cool. And I found it out, and I was like, I was like, this is something legit. And I was like, you gotta go through the web page and go through it. But I was like, I would love to do that. Like to get a week away from just everything and go to the DR. Why not?

SPEAKER_04 39:55

Oh, yeah. Well, there's a couple organizations that's focused on getting veterans out there. Like uh, there's a place in Cali that uh teach you how to surf and you have like you know mental health stuff and all that stuff. Okay, they'll fly you out, get to hotels. No, they won't fly you out.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

You have to you have to fly out yourself, but they'll they'll mouse you and you know feed you everything. You just have to get there.

SPEAKER_04 40:16

Yeah, there's yeah, that's the thing about the yeah. Yep, there's a lot. So uh yeah, we're trying to find all these organizations, do that, and then eventually, hopefully one day we get enough interest, do our own little cancer crew, like recovery crews, you know, where all of us can kind of mingle and all that kind of stuff on the scene.

SPEAKER_01 40:32

I would say also get get along with the like the uh wounded warrior project because they're one, they're a big advocate too. And they're in your neck of the wood. So you know, they do something in different events. Like they just did the um UFL football game last week, and they were giving tickets to veterans, and you got to watch the game and the part and the perfect seating, and it was a good environment. It was very nice, you know.

SPEAKER_00 40:53

It actually had a lock picking they had a lock picking smith class like during COVID. They were trying to teach people how to become criminals. Yeah, uh okay. Mike is so. Yeah, no, uh, yeah, no, we we uh we're working with them a little bit. Uh hopefully, you know, hopefully we'll be able to use their space in DC for our uh blood draw. So fingers crossed on that one. But uh no, they're they're good people. They actually just had their first uh veteran cancer uh online support group. So, you know, it went really well. Yeah, no, we have a buddy of ours, Sean, he's a uh leukemia survivor, actually. Reteran, oh crap, don't use this part, anyways. Um, but yeah, he's a uh a great, great advocate for us. He's really pushing our our stuff in there because uh wounded warrior projects, you know, surprisingly, and I actually met with their head of uh their governance team out in DC. They don't have a lot to do with when cut when it comes to cancer. It's actually a pain point of theirs, and they said that they're wanting to get more into it, but they don't want to take it over. Like, you know, they have with PTSD, TBI, and uh more of those physical.

SPEAKER_01 41:50

We shouldn't make children like like a part part of the wounded warrior project, like like the network make it part of the wounded warrior project.

SPEAKER_00 41:56

That's exactly those are the conversations that we're having. So we're really, I mean, and Shuffle's really pushing for that. So it's it's gonna be exciting. But yeah, no, I sent over my white paper over to um the head of the government team, and I was like, hey, we can't we can only advocate 10% of our time with a nonprofit. I was like, I need somebody to sponsor this bill and really kind of push it forward, or I'll lose my nonprofit status, or at least the public charity aspect, and I don't want to get in trouble. So I was like, you know, just take my, you know, take what we have here. I've done a lot of the research and you know, utilize it. I was like, you know, it'd be nice to get credit, but I don't have any ego. Like, you know, just get this across the line so we can help veterans. And so they were like, I don't know a lot about this. I'll read it and I'll get back to you. But um, you know, he he seemed to be really interested. But I was so surprised when they said that they aren't really doing much in this space, despite scary.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

Wow, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_00 42:40

They're not even screening uh whenever veterans are calling into the uh the resource center, you know, the call center, they're not even screening that, you know. You know, how do you have cancer? Have you had cancer, anything like that? That's it's all very mental health focused, which is great, you know, don't get me wrong, but you know, again, lost opportunity there.

SPEAKER_01 42:57

So definitely, and that's an option, that's a resource for you guys to tackle and say, look, put it out there. It's it's one of the main you know, causes of death on cancer. So yes, definitely make it a priority you need. I'd see the commercials sometimes, and it's like it's not enough out there. It's like you gotta get the voices out there to get people to listen because like I said, it is an epidemic of that, and it's unfortunate because you know, we some veterans don't have that kind of support, and we should have that support because I go to hematology oncology and I just see people just sitting there and I'm just like, I know what you're going through, it sucks, and it's just you you want relief identity and you want to have that self of I'm gonna be okay. You know, I feel that, you know, with the medicine and the treatment and the output that I'm gonna beat this and you know, you know, it's interesting.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

I mean, you bring up the outreach, you know, portion of it. So when it comes to like PTSC and suicide with the veteran population, when it comes to V A, I mean, their budget for outreach is really it's like nine hundred million almost. Yeah, it's like nine nine hundred and fifty million or something like that going to You know, the the you know ending suicide, you know, and the veteran population. And it's aimed a lot more towards civilian, uh, you know, the people that are not within the BA, you know, healthcare, you know, that are using the civilian uh, you know, healthcare and so forth. But the budget overall for oncology and for cancer care is actually super high. But when it comes to outreach itself, it's like 250 million. And that's why I think veterans are getting diagnosed at later stages because I mean, here we are, post-lime veterans getting cancer, exactly younger and younger, um, but the screening hasn't changed. They're not advocating for themselves, you know, they're not doing so. I mean, there needs to be a uh budgetary review. And I'm not saying, you know, remove any of the research or anything like because that is so incredibly important, but you know, make a more considered or conceded effort into the outreach because then instead of getting somebody at stage three and four, we might find people at stage one and two and make it so it's under surveillance, you know, instead of having to go for like high-dose chemo and steroids and everything else that are radiation. I mean, um, and that's that's one of the things that we're really kind of pushing for is that oversight. Because like I said, PTSD and and the suicide, you know, epidemic that's happening. I mean, obviously we need funding for that and we need to continue with that.

SPEAKER_01 45:10

But it feels like it goes like hand in hand also because like I said with PTSD and the suicide rate can also relate to with cancer. Like if you are a cancer, you know, diagnosed, you may feel that maybe I should just end it, or PTSD because your mind is like being tugged at so many different areas. It's like you overthink things or your your anxiety is kicking in or your nervousness. And like I said, it's it's a mental strain too, besides physical.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Yeah, I completely agree with you. I mean, mental health, and that's one of the reasons why, you know, we sit there and ask, like, hey, did you receive mental health treatment? Were you offered that at all? Because Casey wasn't offered mental health uh, you know, treatment. I mean, he had a chaplain come in, but that was because he was a personal friend of mine that came in to to chat with him. Um, and it was really surprising, you know, because I think behavior, you know, like how how your mind is, you know, like mind over matter, you know, they always sit there and push that. But it it really is true when when it comes to having that positive mindset. Cause as soon as you start with those depression thoughts, I mean, your your body is actually creating those um, oh gosh, what is it, those like bad blood cells or you know, things that are like attacking your body. And so the more depressed you are, the, you know, the sicker that you get, you know, and and that's what gets me is it's not even off, you know, some hospitals don't even offer it. I think they are getting better about it, depending on what clinic, but you know, looking at the whole health, you know, your, you know, your physical side as well. Like Casey was basically just resting in an infusion chair for hours on end, you know, and he could have been taking nutrition classes or being able to be in a small group talking to other veterans or people going through what he has, you know, kind of going on to help with that, you know, that mental, uh, that mental side of things. But then like you're muscle atrophying as well, because you're not using the same muscles because you're just so exhausted. Like definitely more concepted effort, you know, on on these, you know, on these uh pain points that I think would help overall with with the healing. But that's my soapbox, you know. I I get on it every once in a while.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

That's understandable. No, it's good. It's a that's a good avenue. And definitely said, mental health is something that is important and it is definitely need to be addressed along with the cancer. It they go hand in hand at times because, like you said, it can lay so much with your brain being tugged by different, you know, things.

SPEAKER_00 47:14

Absolutely. Well, Kevin, I know we took up so much of your time. I'd appreciate it. Um, we might actually use some of this where it's the three of us and and Casey and all that. I hope, I mean, you guys had it just such a natural conversation. I I wish he would get more out there, but um, but we appreciate your time and you know you're welcome.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

It's not a problem.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

I I would love to have you come back maybe with one of the other uh, you know, one of the other guys and just have like a guy talk, you know, and kind of just talk because I think that's gonna really be helpful for you know for a lot of the the veterans sitting there saying the things that I can't say, you know, like it's it's it's weird coming from me, but you know, you guys could say, you know, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 47:50

But yeah, we we have another veteran that's uh a testic testicular cancer. So we got at least three of us that share at least that, um, which would be interesting to talk about. Kind of like a cancer talk after dark or something, you know?

SPEAKER_01 48:04

Like Yeah, like a round table. Like, yeah, definitely. No, you're I'm I would de I'll take up on your invite. You're more than welcome.

SPEAKER_00 48:10

That sounds good.